I would like to make a couple of comments about the idea of "total depravity."
This in response with a friend with a few additional comments.
1. We really can't say that everyone is born "totally depraved." For example we don't eat our young by nature... that would be closer to total depravity, example... the black widow spider might be considerd totally depraved... she will eat her young and her mate... etc. Most "normal" humans are horrified at the thought of a mother eating her own newborn...
2. What we lost in the fall is more the biblical focus... and what we lost is the present "glory" of God. Now, couple that with the Mars Hill remark, Act 17:29 "Being then God's offspring..." We lost our true spiritual identity which is in Christ. We have lost our "glory" and therefore tend to act... un-gloriously. What Jesus calls walking in darkness.
There is a distinction there between what was lost and what we are at conception. This is why the bible speaks of being "redeemed."
Christ speaks as this...
This in response with a friend with a few additional comments.
1. We really can't say that everyone is born "totally depraved." For example we don't eat our young by nature... that would be closer to total depravity, example... the black widow spider might be considerd totally depraved... she will eat her young and her mate... etc. Most "normal" humans are horrified at the thought of a mother eating her own newborn...
2. What we lost in the fall is more the biblical focus... and what we lost is the present "glory" of God. Now, couple that with the Mars Hill remark, Act 17:29 "Being then God's offspring..." We lost our true spiritual identity which is in Christ. We have lost our "glory" and therefore tend to act... un-gloriously. What Jesus calls walking in darkness.
There is a distinction there between what was lost and what we are at conception. This is why the bible speaks of being "redeemed."
Christ speaks as this...
"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the one being lost."
(Luk 19:10, Literal version)
posted by XtnYoda at 12:18 PM
2 Comments:
No depravity is a learned condition, but one we are all predisposed to. "For through one man sin entered the world.."....
"24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. Romans1:24-28
So while not "born depraved" all of us have the tendency to lean toward depravity, absent God's intervention. And I wonder, looking at the current state of cultural decay in general, if some of this "depravity" isn't getting bred into our children, like a gene for cancer or something!
I like that opening statement, "depravity is a learned condition..."
Fun seeing your quoting from Romans 1 as I am preaching through Romans 1 in our morning services right now. Started first Sunday in Jan and yesterday was all the way to verse 24, which is where you quote begins. Nice.
We should finish chapter one in December.
And, yes to your comments. What you are calling a "leaning" and a "tendency" is what I am referring to as having "lost our glory."
God Bless!
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