Further thoughts on the Amish killings following a challenge on the razor's edge board of Brutally Honest.
http://www.brutallyhonest.org/brutally_honest/


The response was from a good person called Nicks:

XtnYoda,

I think you have taken some unwarranted liberty with the text.

Cain is the murderer, not the parent. So the question God asks is, “did you do evil to your brother?”

If you take exception to the Amish fathers forgiveness, please explain the verses you left out

He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground. “Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. “When you cultivate the ground, it will no longer yield its strength to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.”

Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is too great to bear! “Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” So the LORD said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him. Gen. 4:10-15 (NASB)

Wow, God not only lets him live, He insures that others cannot kill him.

To which I have responded and added a little more here on my blog:

God nowhere lifted the curse that he placed on Cain. God never said that Cain was forgiven. God never asked Adam nor Eve to forgive Cain for killing their son, but I didn't go there. Cain was forever separated from his family for his deed.

I don't know God's purposes for sending Cain off to father other people groups, honestly don't know. This act of murder was committed before there was a law given. Had Cain murdered Abel after the law he would have been stoned to death.

We don't see Adam and Eve rushing out to make statements of forgiveness, rather words of extreem grief at the loss. We don't see Adam or Eve making statements to the effect that the murder of Abel was God's will. God did not say it was his will for Cain to murder Abel. Before Cain killed Abel we see God actually trying to talk him out of it!

Gen 4:3-7
3 In the course of time Cain presented some of the land's produce as an offering to the LORD. 4 And Abel also presented an offering — some of the firstborn of his flock and their fat portions. The LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not have regard for Cain and his offering. Cain was furious, and he was downcast.

6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you furious? And why are you downcast? 7 If you do right, won't you be accepted? But if you do not do right, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must master it."
(from Holman Christian Standard Bible® Copyright © 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003 by Holman Bible Publishers.)

We then see God's grieved response to Abel's bloods crying out to him.

I am too deeply grieved for words for how I feel toward these Amish fathers who have been placed in the position of abdicating all responsibility for defending their daughters/children...then deflecting the blame to God for their deaths. They have been totally stripped of their masculinity.

I grieve over the surviving children of all such as the Amish. At bedtime prayers, "Daddy, if a mad man comes here to kill us tomorrow, will you let him kill us?"

"Yes dear ones, it will be God's will. I will run away. But don't fret now, we will look so noble to the world when we quickly make statements of forgiveness. Sleep tight now."

Total emasculation.

Total madness.

I did find this interview with one Amish man named Freeman on the net. It goes like this:

His non-resistance is based on "the peace of God within us." His response to the tragedies of September 11th and the ensuing invasion of Iraq is to pray for all involved.

Freeman and his Amish friend Laverne have experienced criticism for their refusal to participate in military action. "We have feelings too, just like everyone else," Laverne pointed out. He confessed to suffering sorrow and confusion by the threat of terrorism, wondering at times, "Has the world gone crazy?" But the Scriptures he meditates on assure him "God is in control -- we need to trust God." When he is challenged or belittled for his beliefs, he shares the words of Matthew 5:38-48, 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, and Romans 12:17-21, which he considers to be "the core of the New Testament."

"I try to lay down my human feelings and not be narrow-minded," he explained, always keeping an open mind to the opinions of others.

"We do appreciate the freedom we have in this country," added Freeman. "We pay our taxes just like everyone else, as Jesus commanded when He said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." But Freeman also pointed out "the true freedom we have goes beyond anything this world can offer. Our home is in Heaven; we are what the Bible calls 'strangers and pilgrims’' here. Through the love of God, we are free from the bondage of sin."

Although the principles of non-resistance preclude attacking or harming anyone else, Amish and Mennonite men expressed a willingness to put themselves in harm¹s way to protect others.

"I would stand in the gap between the victim and the attacker, and resist (the attacker) in the name of Jesus Christ," said Freeman. "I trust that the Lord would provide. God forbid that I would ever kill someone."
This article can be found on the following link under the sub-article on "war, number 2"
http://www.amish-heartland.com/

I would say to Mr. Freeman...YES! More Sir!!! Stand up and become the man God intends for you to be!

XtnYoda Shalomed